NNSquad - Network Neutrality Squad
[ NNSquad ] Re: Comcast files "recommended practices" draft RFC with IETF for DNS Redirection
I can't speak for the ISPs motivations, but you're right that they are probably driven by profits (though I'd argue they are going to be getting short-term profits and the expense of long-term unhappy customers) but I will point out that there are lots of legitimate reasons people want to do DNS error redirection. 12 million + people have opted to use the services of my company, OpenDNS, to make their internet safer and more reliable. That's why I was willing to lend a few thoughts to the IETF document. -David [ Note that David (Reed's) message didn't discuss the profit issue, so your response is actually to my comment. However, I agree, there are legit reasons why individuals or organizations may choose to use alternate DNS services such as yours. And I have no problems at all with anyone choosing whichever DNS resolver that they might wish. However, I know of no case where a major ISP has introduced a DNS diversion service on an *opt-in* basis. Every one I've seen has been opt-out (usually by means of users changing their DNS settings manually) and -- judging from people who contact me on this topic -- often very badly (if at all) explained to ISP customers. Seriously, does anyone know of a major ISP that introduced DNS diversion completely opt-in? -- Lauren Weinstein NNSquad Moderator ] On Jul 9, 2009, at 2:06 PM, David P. Reed wrote: > > > http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-livingood-dns-redirect-00 > > I note that this draft RFC proposes practices that routinely return > *valid* responses to erroneous DNS lookups, and encourage an opt-out > policy rather than an opt-in policy. > > The sole justification is that the default way that a browser such as > Firefox or IE would present an error message is inadequate for users, > thus an ISP should take matters into its own hands to fix that > cosmetic > problem, rather than asking the browser vendors to do a better job! > > And the side effects identified do not include the impact on http > requests not generated by typing into web browsers, but instead used > as > part of "web 2.0" service apis and other uses of port 80 that do not > arise from end users typing into the url bar of their browser. > > One might ask why the sole justification given for this misuse of DNS > to patch an application weakness is the only one? > > And even more so, why this is such an urgent problem that ISPs must > fix > it via a flawed and risky solution, rather than the makers of browsers > fixing it in the most logical place? > > The potential to disrupt non web-browser features is noted in the > "draft > RFC", but instead of a balanced analysis of benefits and costs to > other > uses, the draft is silent. In fact, the draft refers to this as > "enhanced" functionality. > > I expect the wiser heads at the IETF to prevail.... This is a > solution > to a non-existent "problem", with bad side effects. > > While this is not exactly the same as directing a misdialed phone call > to call a Caribbean phone company number with the consequent and > unavoidable billing charge to the user, it seems very close to that > sort > of thing - a surprise to all application developers, and a > modification > to the expected semantics of directory lookup. > > [ I agree with David. If IETF goes along with this proposal, there > is something very rotten in Denmark. What's really amusing about > the referenced document though is that for all its verbiage in > which it tries to establish a "need" for such DNS redirect > services -- mostly focused on highly questionable assumptions > about malware protection and legal mandates -- it fails to > mention the primary reason that ISPs implement DNS redirects. > > This is of course use of such DNS diversion services to create > profit centers, by shunting users to ISP-affiliated search > engines and affililated ad delivery services, attemping to > monetize users' interactions with the broader Internet by > capturing low-level transactional communications to which the ISP > has privileged access. > > -- Lauren Weinstein > NNSquad Moderator ] >