NNSquad - Network Neutrality Squad
[ NNSquad ] "Tactics" (from IP) [ was: "Broadband Census ..." ]
------- Forwarded Message From: David Farber <dave@farber.net> To: "ip" <ip@v2.listbox.com> Subject: Tactics (was: Re: [IP] Re: Upcoming conference on "Broadband Census for America") Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2008 17:30:48 -0400 Begin forwarded message: From: Lauren Weinstein <lauren@vortex.com> Date: August 9, 2008 12:39:01 PM EDT To: dave@farber.net Cc: lauren@vortex.com Subject: Tactics (was: Re: [IP] Re: Upcoming conference on "Broadband Census for America") Dave, Perhaps in the future you should warn us when you forward a message from "Brett Glass #2" as opposed to "Brett Glass #1". BG#2, as below, now pushes for laws to ban certain antitcompetitive behaviors by large carriers that he believes (and I would agree) tend to negatively and unfairly impact his business. But BG #1 -- the Brett Glass that we usually see who often refers to proponents of network neutrality with the term "network nutrality," argues against any laws or regulations that would protect consumers from unfair or anticompetitive tactics by those same ISPs. Brett argues that such laws or regulations would be an unfair intrusion on his rights as a private business owner to operate in *whatever* manner he sees fit while providing commercial services and "controlling his network." He asserts this even when it is suggested that small and limited operations such as his might well be exempted from various of the proposed regulations. "Who are you to tell us how to operate our businesses?" is his favorite refrain. Well, at least one of the more polite versions. He also constantly insists that there's *plenty* of ISP competition in the U.S., pointing out the large number of (often very small) wireless ISPs, despite the fact that practical limitations and costs make them an untenable choice for most consumers. Seriously, the problem isn't just Brett -- he truly is between a rock and a hard place with his small WISP being squeezed by the unfair tactics of the big boys. But highly "compartmented" arguments such as his are a hallmark of many non-neutrality advocates, who are all in favor of laws that help their bottom lines, but dismiss and belittle attempts to provide operational fairness and practical competition to the ISP marketplace that the vast majority of Internet users must deal with every day. - --Lauren-- Lauren Weinstein lauren@vortex.com or lauren@pfir.org Tel: +1 (818) 225-2800 http://www.pfir.org/lauren Co-Founder, PFIR - People For Internet Responsibility - http://www.pfir.org Co-Founder, NNSquad - Network Neutrality Squad - http://www.nnsquad.org Founder, PRIVACY Forum - http://www.vortex.com Member, ACM Committee on Computers and Public Policy Lauren's Blog: http://lauren.vortex.com - - - - > > --Apple-Mail-353--533739560 > Content-Type: text/plain; > charset=US-ASCII; > format=flowed; > delsp=yes > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > > > Begin forwarded message: > > From: Brett Glass <brett@lariat.net> > Date: August 8, 2008 11:17:06 PM EDT > To: "Drew Clark (Broadband Census)" <drew@broadbandcensus.com>, dave@farber.net > Subject: Re: [IP] Re: Upcoming conference on "Broadband Census for > America" > > At 11:25 AM 8/8/2008, Drew Clark (Broadband Census) wrote: > >> With respect to the issue data confidentiality, it's important to >> separate out several issues here: >> >> (1) The names of carriers and the locations in which they offer >> services, by ZIP code. >> >> (2) The number of subscribers that carriers have in a particular ZIP >> code. >> >> The Form 477 of the Federal Communications Commission requires that >> carriers submit both types of information to the FCC. >> >> I agree that category (2) may well be confidential information. I do >> not believe that category (1) can be considered confidential. > > As a wireless ISP, I believe that the exact extent of my coverage is, > and should > be, proprietary information. Competitors -- especially large ones -- > are capable > of targeting consumers literally house by house, and certainly block > by block. > >> The web site that I run, http://BroadbandCensus.com, is an attempt >> to combine information about broadband from various sources. In >> addition to "crowdsourcing" data from internet users, we are >> combining public information from the FCC's Form 477, > > The FCC should not provide disaggregated information from Form 477, as > this would > allow the sort of anticompetitive practices I've mentioned. If you are > in favor > of widespread broadband deployment, competition, and choice, you > should not attempt > to give large competitors tools with which to attack us. > >> It is important to note that Form 477 data released by the FCC does >> _not_ include the names of the carriers. > > No, but this can be inferred easily. > >> Who would benefit more from public disclosure about the locations, >> technology types, promised speeds and prices: small carriers or big >> carriers? I don't know. >> >> Brett clearly feels that small carriers would suffer. I know of >> others who disagree with him. > > I would wager that they are large carriers. > >> With regard to the conference on September 26, 2008, that is being >> sponsored by BroadbandCensus.com, Carnegie Mellon University, the >> University of Texas at Austin's Robert S. Strauss Center, and the >> Virginia Tech eCorridors Program, we plan to make the list of our >> panel speakers available within the coming weeks. Although space on >> the conference agenda is tight, the program committee is open to >> including others. > > The current agenda contains no one who is actually in the business of > providing > Internet service. This is a terrific deficiency. If you do not involve > ISPs, > discussion is pointless because there is no one there who is actually > rolling out > broadband. I would encourage you to add multiple ISPs -- not just one > and not > just large ones -- to your agenda. > >> The goal of the conference, as stated on http://broadbandcensus.com/blog/?p=331 >> , is to "invite government officials, academic researchers and other >> key stakeholders to a half-day conference on collecting and sharing >> public data about high-speed internet access." > > Are ISPs not "key stakeholders?" > >> With regard to issue of the Freedom of Information Act that Brett >> raises: >> >> It is correct that an organization for which I previously worked -- >> the Center for Public Integrity -- filed a lawsuit seeking the >> disclosure of the Form 477 database. As the suit proceeding, the >> Center dropped its request for data in category (2), and instead >> sought the data in category (1). > > The revelation of such data has no bearing on public integrity. Those > bringing the > lawsuit should also contemplate what would happen if such data was > publicly > available. I, for one, would expect to find myself in the crosshairs > of marketing > campaigns by Qwest, Bresnan Communications, third party DSL providers, > and > companies attempting national wireless rollouts (e.g. Clearwire). > > Perhaps if you pushed as hard to outlaw anticompetitive tactics as you > are to > obtain data which could (at the moment aid them), there would come a > time when > we did not have to play our cards so close to our vest. > > --Brett Glass > > > > > ------------------------------------------- > Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/247/=now > RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/247/ > Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com > > --Apple-Mail-353--533739560 > Content-Type: text/html; > charset=US-ASCII > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > <html><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: > space; -webk= > it-line-break: after-white-space; "><br><div><br><div>Begin > forwarded messa= > ge:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div><div > style=3D"margin-= > top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; > "><font = > face=3D"Helvetica" size=3D"3" color=3D"#000000" style=3D"font: > 12.0px Helve= > tica; color: #000000"><b>From: </b></font><font face=3D"Helvetica" > size=3D"= > 3" style=3D"font: 12.0px Helvetica">Brett Glass <<a href=3D"mailto:brett= > @lariat.net">brett@lariat.net</a>></font></div><div style=3D"margin- > top: 0p= > x; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font > face=3D= > "Helvetica" size=3D"3" color=3D"#000000" style=3D"font: 12.0px > Helvetica; c= > olor: #000000"><b>Date: </b></font><font face=3D"Helvetica" > size=3D"3" styl= > e=3D"font: 12.0px Helvetica">August 8, 2008 11:17:06 PM EDT</font></ > div><di= > v style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; > margin-l= > eft: 0px; "><font face=3D"Helvetica" size=3D"3" color=3D"#000000" > style=3D"= > font: 12.0px Helvetica; color: #000000"><b>To: </b></font><font > face=3D"Hel= > vetica" size=3D"3" style=3D"font: 12.0px Helvetica">"Drew Clark > (Broadband = > Census)" <<a > href=3D"mailto:drew@broadbandcensus.com";>drew@broadbandcens= > us.com</a>>, <a href=3D"mailto:dave@farber.net";>dave@farber.net</a></ > font><= > /div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin- > bottom: 0px; = > margin-left: 0px; "><font face=3D"Helvetica" size=3D"3" > color=3D"#000000" s= > tyle=3D"font: 12.0px Helvetica; color: #000000"><b>Subject: </b></ > font><fon= > t face=3D"Helvetica" size=3D"3" style=3D"font: 12.0px > Helvetica"><b>Re: [IP= > ] Re: Upcoming conference on "Broadband Census for America"</b></ > font></div= >> <div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: >> 0px; marg= > in-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div> </div><div> At 11:25 AM > 8/8/20= > 08, Drew Clark (Broadband Census) wrote:<br> <br> <blockquote > type=3D= > "cite" class=3D"cite" cite=3D"">With respect to the issue data > confidential= > ity, it's important to separate out several issues here:<br><br> (1) > The na= > mes of carriers and the locations in which they offer services, by > ZIP code= > .<br><br> (2) The number of subscribers that carriers have in a > particular = > ZIP code.<br><br> The Form 477 of the Federal Communications > Commission req= > uires that carriers submit both types of information to the > FCC.<br><br> I = > agree that category (2) may well be confidential information. I do > not beli= > eve that category (1) can be considered confidential.</ > blockquote><br> As a= > wireless ISP, I believe that the exact extent of my coverage is, and > shoul= > d<br> be, proprietary information. Competitors -- especially large > ones -- = > are capable<br> of targeting consumers literally house by house, and > certai= > nly block by block.<br><br> <blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D"cite" > cite= > =3D"">The web site that I run, <a href=3D"http:// > BroadbandCensus.com">http:= > //BroadbandCensus.com</a>, is an attempt to combine information > about broad= > band from various sources. In addition to "crowdsourcing" data from > interne= > t users, we are combining public information from the FCC's Form > 477, </blo= > ckquote><br> The FCC should not provide disaggregated information > from Form= > 477, as this would<br> allow the sort of anticompetitive practices > I've me= > ntioned. If you are in favor<br> of widespread broadband deployment, > compet= > ition, and choice, you should not attempt<br> to give large > competitors too= > ls with which to attack us.<br><br> <blockquote type=3D"cite" > class=3D"cite= > " cite=3D"">It is important to note that Form 477 data released by > the FCC = > does _not_ include the names of the carriers. </blockquote><br> No, > but thi= > s can be inferred easily.<br><br> <blockquote type=3D"cite" > class=3D"cite" = > cite=3D"">Who would benefit more from public disclosure about the > locations= > , technology types, promised speeds and prices: small carriers or > big carri= > ers? I don't know.<br><br> Brett clearly feels that small carriers > would su= > ffer. I know of others who disagree with him.</blockquote><br> I > would wage= > r that they are large carriers.<br><br> <blockquote type=3D"cite" > class=3D"= > cite" cite=3D"">With regard to the conference on September 26, 2008, > that i= > s being sponsored by BroadbandCensus.com, Carnegie Mellon > University, the U= > niversity of Texas at Austin's Robert S. Strauss Center, and the > Virginia T= > ech eCorridors Program, we plan to make the list of our panel > speakers avai= > lable within the coming weeks. Although space on the conference > agenda is t= > ight, the program committee is open to including others. </ > blockquote><br> = > The current agenda contains no one who is actually in the business > of provi= > ding<br> Internet service. This is a terrific deficiency. If you do > not inv= > olve ISPs,<br> discussion is pointless because there is no one there > who is= > actually rolling out<br> broadband. I would encourage you to add > multiple = > ISPs -- not just one and not<br> just large ones -- to your > agenda.<br><br>= > <blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D"cite" cite=3D"">The goal of the > confere= > nce, as stated on <a href=3D"http://broadbandcensus.com/blog/? > p=3D331"> htt= > p://broadbandcensus.com/blog/?p=3D331</a>, is to "invite government > officia= > ls, academic researchers and other key stakeholders to a half-day > conferenc= > e on collecting and sharing public data about high-speed internet > access."<= > /blockquote><br> Are ISPs not "key stakeholders?"<br><br> > <blockquote type= > =3D"cite" class=3D"cite" cite=3D"">With regard to issue of the > Freedom of I= > nformation Act that Brett raises:<br><br> It is correct that an > organizatio= > n for which I previously worked -- the Center for Public Integrity > -- filed= > a lawsuit seeking the disclosure of the Form 477 database. As the > suit pro= > ceeding, the Center dropped its request for data in category (2), > and inste= > ad sought the data in category (1).</blockquote><br> The revelation > of such= > data has no bearing on public integrity. Those bringing the<br> > lawsuit sh= > ould also contemplate what would happen if such data was > publicly<br> avail= > able. I, for one, would expect to find myself in the crosshairs of > marketin= > g<br> campaigns by Qwest, Bresnan Communications, third party DSL > providers= > , and <br> companies attempting national wireless rollouts (e.g. > Clearwire)= > .<br><br> Perhaps if you pushed as hard to outlaw anticompetitive > tactics a= > s you are to<br> obtain data which could (at the moment aid them), > there wo= > uld come a time when<br> we did not have to play our cards so close > to our = > vest.<br><br> --Brett Glass<br> </div> </div><br><div > style=3D"padding:0 4p= > x 4px 4px;background-color:#fff;clear:both" bgcolor=3D"#ffffff"> > <hr> > > <table border=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" > width=3D"100%" styl= > e=3D"background-color:#fff" bgcolor=3D"#ffffff"> > <tr> > <td padding=3D"4px"> > <font color=3D"black" size=3D"1" face=3D"helvetica, sans-serif;"> > <a style=3D"text-decoration:none;color:#669933;border-bottom: > 1px sol= > id #444444" > href=3D"https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/247/=3Dnow"; > title=3D"Go to a= > rchives for ip">Archives</a> > <a border=3D"0" style=3D"text-decoration:none;color:#669933" href=3D"https:= > //www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/247/" title=3D"RSS feed for > ip"><img b= > order=3D0 src=3D"https://www.listbox.com/images/feed- > icon-10x10.jpg"></a> > <td valign=3D"top" align=3D"right"><a style=3D"border-bottom:none;" > href=3D= > "http://www.listbox.com";> > <img src=3D"https://www.listbox.com/images/listbox-logo-small.jpg"; > title=3D"Powered by Listbox" border=3D"0" /></a></td> > > </font> > </td> > </tr> > </table> > </div> > </body></html>= > > --Apple-Mail-353--533739560-- - ------------------------------------------- Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/247/=now RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/247/ Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com ------- End of Forwarded Message