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[ NNSquad ] Re: Richard Bennett on Comcast and Fairness (from IP) 

I'll respond to the comments on my reply.

"I agree, Kevin, that as a matter of principle it's not the network's job to "determine the value of bits", but I disagree that all bits are therefore of equal value. We all know that some information is more valuable to us personally than other information, and we're quite good at sorting it all out. I propose that we communicate our own determination to the network, and require it to convey bits (packets, really) at the priorities we've specified. This is what we do in WiFi networks with WME enabled, maintain separate priority queues for four types of data, and it works quite well, and with no Telco in the picture. "

You're mixing personal QoS which can occur at a residential router and network QoS. We have personal technology, it works, anyone can go down to a retailer and get a QoS router. Where your logic breaks down is where your QoS preferences as a network user interfere with mine.

My priorities are not my neighbors priorities and they're certainly not my ISPs. If I communicate that my bittorrent download is priority, can we expect that an ISP will just accept that? If not, will they want to bill for that 'priority' and will that not lead to the type of competition differentials we're currently seeing for VoIP products in Canada. The ISPs charging 'thinly veiled VoIP tax[es]' so that competing services continue to work?

Some Questions:

Do you propose that we create a gradient of bandwidth pricing?
Would top priority bandwidth cost more?
Isn't this the two-tier scenario, and highly prejudicial to the poor?
Wouldn't this discourage the development of new media services that require both high bandwidth and low latency?
Wouldn't this give a distinct competitive advantage to the ISP over third-party competitors?
Doesn't this work as as a disincentive to create faster networks, as if the normal pipe is purposefully broken or neglected, then all users will be forced onto the priority pipe and therefore generate more revenue for carriers?

Is it not just cheaper, easier and more socially fair that the carriers be required to build their network's capacity in ratio to overall usage so that all applications and participants get the best possible service?

The business of packet priority is not a technical one, it is instead a social question of considerable consequence.

Kevin McArthur



Richard Bennett wrote:
A few responses to some of the remarks on my article posted on NNSquad, for the mutual benefit and what-not.

Kevin McArthur wrote:
It is not the purpose of a network to determine the value of bits, nor is it right to treat any bit as better than another. A text message might be really important to someone else, but my ability to watch a streaming news report is really important to me. Which one will the carrier prioritize? This isn't a determination they can make, nor is it one where the value of the transmission can be determined by the number or amount of bits traveling.
I agree, Kevin, that as a matter of principle it's not the network's job to "determine the value of bits", but I disagree that all bits are therefore of equal value. We all know that some information is more valuable to us personally than other information, and we're quite good at sorting it all out. I propose that we communicate our own determination to the network, and require it to convey bits (packets, really) at the priorities we've specified. This is what we do in WiFi networks with WME enabled, maintain separate priority queues for four types of data, and it works quite well, and with no Telco in the picture.

Barry Gold wrote:
But even if the "excessive" user _were_ "blocking the line to the...buffet" (presumably by filling the local loop up with his packets), dropping packets is a useful solution. The ISP can (or should be able to) program the cable modem to drop the packets before they ever get on the local loop -- right there in the user's house/apartment/business. Or if the user owns the modem, the ISP can put a minimal router with usage control at the point where the wire emerges from the user's building, or where it connects to the main cable at the utility pole or undergound system.
As others have pointed out, the DOCSIS cable modem carrier doesn't have the ability to instruct the user's modem to drop packets rather than attempt to transmit them. Dropping packets also has no immediate effect on the load on the local segment caused by BitTorrent handshakes. Packet drop reduces the load on a segment caused by an ongoing stream of TCP traffic, but it does nothing to reduce load caused by SYN responses when the SYNs are coming from outside the segment.

Andy Richardson wrote:
They can go in several different directions:
(1) upgrade their infrastructure to handle the traffic
(2) lower prices to make up for lower network performance
(3) lose customers until the problem basically fixes itself
(4) establish tiers of access w/ easily understood caps, charging more for heavier access
(5) implement a shady scheme of network shaping and undocumented caps until the market matures and rome burns, see option 3.
In fact, Comcast at least is doing all the above. Later this year, they're rolling out an upgrade to 130/100 Mb/s service, which will presumably complement the existing offerings, which include 4 and 6 Mb/s residential and a commercial service where it's OK to run servers. The current flap over Comcast comes from people with want to operate servers (BitTorrent Seeder is simply a server) in violation of the TOS for residential accounts. Buy a commercial account and you can seed to your heart's content.

RB